Kia ora Cora-Allan, over lockdown one of your works caught me off guard. It had all of the elements that I was used to seeing in your mahi, but this one somehow was configured differently. Can you explain a little how this particular piece came about? 

The piece came from a year-long process of thinking about how I want to look at the whenua where the McCahon residency is based. How do I want to make art in that place in a way that is interesting to me?

Firstly I began to think of not just spending time at French bay but sailing and learning about its waters, when I was taking a flight to Wellington I decided that I would find a boat to paint from the water. I spent time painting without a real plan, I was spending time using colour and looking at McCahons works. This image was one of a series of 10 during this time. There were many trials to get to this clean resolved version. Once I saw the balance and felt the sureness in the work I knew this was the 'look' I would explore during my residency. It showed the whenua in a raw form and I also use the strong lines of the black Kāpia ink to hold it down. 

What I especially like is that not only is this earth pigment ‘grounded’ below, but it’s also fertile! With leafy plants springing forth. Is this perhaps a metaphor for how you’re feeling in your mahi? 

That's a really nice way to put it, once I lay the base colour down I let the rest emerge and most of the time don't know what is going to be the outcome. I see it as kind of how a bush grows, it is directed by the sun, by the elements and that is kind of what happens to me. I dont force anything and have up to five works going at a time so that I can easily move on and give each work strong energy. 

I have started to look at working as a never ending cycle so finishing something is not the goal. When works end up in their new homes or in an exhibition, is when they are finished. I recently just re-worked a bunch of Hiapo works that I hated. I turned them over and started new lives for them. It wasn't till I had completed them that I felt like I was looking at time periods of my Hiapo making. One has still life with Walnut ink and it doesn’t compare to the materials I use one. The new version has kōkōwai and freshly made pine soot ink that just jumps out at you. My materials definitely show me that I'm ready when things work well and other times I should just go eat some kai and play with the kids. 

What, if anything, have you found to be the biggest challenge in using earth pigments? 

At first I found the amount of yellows that I could find really annoying, but then as I looked closer and appreciated each tone and texture, I saw they were completely different. I could also see their whakapapa is different. I am very sentimental with objects and now with dirt. We are getting married next year and at the venue preview I took some dirt to remind me of the place even though we aren't married yet, I know that whenua is going to be a huge part of our story as a whānau. Finding time to go and search for colours and to really embrace the hunt is my biggest challenge right now with two young kids, I always put the family first and know when the timing is right or wrong. At the moment I just gather where I can but I would love to do a massive hike and chart maunga. 

Can you share with us any memorable natural materials you’ve used over the last year? 

The mangrove sap in the islands is by far the most labour intensive and heart beating harvest experiences I have ever had. I'm not good with mud, like squishy mud lol and so standing in the mangroves before the fast tide is coming dripping with sweat and battling mosquitoes was a heart pumping moment for me. The way the sap behaves with the ink I make is like no other, it is so shiny and has such a strong smell. I think it will always be my favourite to work with. I actually got stung in the face by three wasps while trying to find the right hibiscus tree branch. 

Do you have any advice to people wanting to start working with earth pigments? 

Learn with someone or from someone, having conversation as you go is the best part as you find out what you do and don't know. 

I pride myself on having technology to make pigments and Hiapo. I make sure to  have the best wood for tools or get something made for me if it doesn't exist. The toolkit and collecting is just a small part of the process but so worth having the right tools and not something that is half made. I am actually helping to put a zine together for a workshop kit. I know this knowledge is going to be used by anyone and not specifically indigenous communities. So I created something different so that I didn't have to compromise the land, in case people who didn't respect her started digging and not being respectful. That's the thing with knowledge, not everyone will conduct themselves in the way that I would and so I felt that it wasn't right to share in that capacity. Asking permission and being a respectful gatherer is clear to me, but I can definitely see how people may monetize this kind of knowledge. Strange but true happens all the time and I just want to make sure I'm not giving anyone an extra hand in that type of business.